I was born in 1963, which marks me as born in the waning moments of the Boomer Generation. There were a lot of us—after the trauma of World War II all over the Western world, our parents got down to business. Because our numbers were so great, many of us starting making the incorrect assumption that “our” culture was
My feeling has always been that we Gen-Xers were presented with a post-pop-culture conundrum by which we acknowledged that the commercial TV reality we'd grown up in was a lot of mass-marketed garbage, but our only option was to find a way to keep enjoying it, seeing as there were no meaningful alternatives. Hence, the marketers learned to exploit our cynicism about the badness of it all - the MST3K repackaging of dashed commercial hopes as a carnival sideshow at which we should point and laugh.
Meanwhile, because the stream of pop culture mindlessness just kept on pumping out the hits, and our cynicism about it never wavered, it left us with the feeling that nothing has effectively changed since the 1980s. More vapid pop hits and sitcoms to fill the shelf space.
And it becomes all too easy to retroactively celebrate that Zeppelin era as the last gasp of real generational turnover as if some more genuine expression of youth rebellion had broken on through to the side in the late 60s and breached the mainstream. No one in their right mind, regardless of age, could think of NSYNC in these terms. Deadpool referencing their dance moves is just a reminder that the same market forces are still working to sell you your own nostalgia for the crap they mass-marketed for you 25 years ago. And everybody loves it.
I think you are wrong. I think NSYNC is pretty much every bit as good as Led Zeppelin. I think our cultural window moves through time with us. NSYNC is just slightly outside my window.
I would argue that how the 60s generation of teenagers viewed their potential voice in the mass media of that time was vastly different than how my generation of 80s teens viewed the culture of our historical period. The cultural window moving with us was closed then and closed now (such was our generally antagonistic stance concerning media products).
To what degree those 60s kids were naive in their optimistic view is debatable, certainly. In the sense that both NSYNC and Led Zeppelin were inevitably marketed brands, there may not be much difference - particularly in how those brands are reintroduced later in life to that same demographic (Zeppelin in the Scorsese film, etc.). But one difference is that Led Zeppelin was marketed as an independent expression of rock 'n roll youth rebellion and NSYNC was openly corporate.
"But one difference is that Led Zeppelin was marketed as an independent expression of rock 'n roll youth rebellion and NSYNC was openly corporate. " This is a myth that baby boomers tell ourselves. Led Zeppelin was no less "corporate" than NSYNC. Atlantic Records and all commercial radio stations are corporations. Boomers were no less manipulated than NSYNC fans of the 90s. We just had an illusion that we were "rebellious" and unmanipulatable.
Exactly. Sticking with the Zeppelin example, I'd say boomers were manipulated to a much larger degree. NSYNC made little pretense about being anything but a group of guys who won auditions to become a product. Zeppelin was supposed to be a band of authentic mystical hippie blues cats (as organized by industry veteran Jimmy Page) - "anti-authoritarian kids like us" - as marketed by the same corporate empire that sold Sinatra singles to their moms and dads.
Anyway, couldn't this also make a difference in the nature of the respective generations' nostalgic attachment to the music? I'm not sure I believe that the "relationship" 80s kids now have to Madonna is just the same as a slightly older demographics' feelings for, say, Patti Smith.
I think 80s kids have a different relationship to Madonna than my generation has to Patti Smith because those we very different musical artists. Madonna was a self-conscious sex symbol. I can't think of a perfect 70s analog--maybe Cher? Stevie Nicks? In any case, the self-selecting fandoms for Patti Smith and Madonna are qualitatively different. And the generations are different. But I am more than willing to admit that a 50 year old's nostalgia for Madonna feels different than the 63 year old's nostalgia for Led Zeppelin. But not hugely different.
My feeling has always been that we Gen-Xers were presented with a post-pop-culture conundrum by which we acknowledged that the commercial TV reality we'd grown up in was a lot of mass-marketed garbage, but our only option was to find a way to keep enjoying it, seeing as there were no meaningful alternatives. Hence, the marketers learned to exploit our cynicism about the badness of it all - the MST3K repackaging of dashed commercial hopes as a carnival sideshow at which we should point and laugh.
Meanwhile, because the stream of pop culture mindlessness just kept on pumping out the hits, and our cynicism about it never wavered, it left us with the feeling that nothing has effectively changed since the 1980s. More vapid pop hits and sitcoms to fill the shelf space.
And it becomes all too easy to retroactively celebrate that Zeppelin era as the last gasp of real generational turnover as if some more genuine expression of youth rebellion had broken on through to the side in the late 60s and breached the mainstream. No one in their right mind, regardless of age, could think of NSYNC in these terms. Deadpool referencing their dance moves is just a reminder that the same market forces are still working to sell you your own nostalgia for the crap they mass-marketed for you 25 years ago. And everybody loves it.
I think you are wrong. I think NSYNC is pretty much every bit as good as Led Zeppelin. I think our cultural window moves through time with us. NSYNC is just slightly outside my window.
I would argue that how the 60s generation of teenagers viewed their potential voice in the mass media of that time was vastly different than how my generation of 80s teens viewed the culture of our historical period. The cultural window moving with us was closed then and closed now (such was our generally antagonistic stance concerning media products).
To what degree those 60s kids were naive in their optimistic view is debatable, certainly. In the sense that both NSYNC and Led Zeppelin were inevitably marketed brands, there may not be much difference - particularly in how those brands are reintroduced later in life to that same demographic (Zeppelin in the Scorsese film, etc.). But one difference is that Led Zeppelin was marketed as an independent expression of rock 'n roll youth rebellion and NSYNC was openly corporate.
"But one difference is that Led Zeppelin was marketed as an independent expression of rock 'n roll youth rebellion and NSYNC was openly corporate. " This is a myth that baby boomers tell ourselves. Led Zeppelin was no less "corporate" than NSYNC. Atlantic Records and all commercial radio stations are corporations. Boomers were no less manipulated than NSYNC fans of the 90s. We just had an illusion that we were "rebellious" and unmanipulatable.
Exactly. Sticking with the Zeppelin example, I'd say boomers were manipulated to a much larger degree. NSYNC made little pretense about being anything but a group of guys who won auditions to become a product. Zeppelin was supposed to be a band of authentic mystical hippie blues cats (as organized by industry veteran Jimmy Page) - "anti-authoritarian kids like us" - as marketed by the same corporate empire that sold Sinatra singles to their moms and dads.
Anyway, couldn't this also make a difference in the nature of the respective generations' nostalgic attachment to the music? I'm not sure I believe that the "relationship" 80s kids now have to Madonna is just the same as a slightly older demographics' feelings for, say, Patti Smith.
I think 80s kids have a different relationship to Madonna than my generation has to Patti Smith because those we very different musical artists. Madonna was a self-conscious sex symbol. I can't think of a perfect 70s analog--maybe Cher? Stevie Nicks? In any case, the self-selecting fandoms for Patti Smith and Madonna are qualitatively different. And the generations are different. But I am more than willing to admit that a 50 year old's nostalgia for Madonna feels different than the 63 year old's nostalgia for Led Zeppelin. But not hugely different.
Which could be variations in what the respective views of "making it" in the music business means.